Land Grabber s Ksh 100m Home Is Demolished In Nairobi

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Land Grabber's Ksh 100m Home Is Demolished In Nairobi
Listing #40208 by Tonytone on 15-Jul-2010 . Viewed 1271 times . Replied to 26 times . Printed 9 times

The Govt is not only talking tough but also acting very very tough.
A wealthy businessman yesterday lost his home which was under
construction in the upmarket Kitisuru area of Nairobi. The man
who is a Mr Wainanina had been warned 5 months ago but didn't
listen. He went into hiding coz he couldn't stand to watch his
huge investment being demolished by the notorious bulldozers
from the ministry of Roads and Public Works under the supervision
of Roads minister and heavily armed policemen. The developer
claims to have all the right papers but the Govt insists the land was
grabbed! Do you feel sorry for the 'land grabber?'....

›› Tonytone 15-Jul-2010, reply_340683
The deomlished house was said to be worth 100m or 1.2 US Dollars! i wish it was turned into a hospital or a children's home! i don't hink if this hse belonged 2 a politician like saitoti or raila it would have been demolished. the law ought 2 be applied equally. why has nakumatt westgate which is build on a river bank been spared? perhaps the owner of this palace refused to chota kitu kidogo!

›› seeker 15-Jul-2010, reply_340696
so sad,i cant imagine.

›› H2O 15-Jul-2010, reply_340702
@tonytone, maybe the time for Nakumatt has not reached yet, but when it does, it will come down, remember the neighbouring houses (to the above) in Kitisuru were demolished like 5 years ago. it cannot be turned into a hospital because again, it would be on a road reserve. I think the owner wanted to delay the demolition for as long as he could by getting court orders and then moving in so as to legitimise the allocation. The guy had 5months notice but he still went on with the construction.

›› H2O 15-Jul-2010, reply_340704
@seeker, sad because of the demolition or sad because the guy built on a road reserve?

›› funguo 15-Jul-2010, reply_340722
Guys the point is that it is wrong for a government to demolish private property like that. how can it be an illegality when the owner was issued by a title deed by the same government, has been paying rates to the Local Authority(which is part of govt), the building plans approved by both nema and NCC (govt agencies)!
Am not denying it is wrong to build on a road reserve, i detest land grabbing and pple who perpetuate the same. the guy bought the land to build his dream home (legally)......so how sure are you n I that when we buy property or invest somewhere, having met all the requirements of the govt, it wount do the same to us!!!!

›› Timex 15-Jul-2010, reply_340726
...now this is fascinating. is this minister not amongst the 'fat cats' that own large tracts of 'grabbed land' in mau forest? this franklin bett chap is trying to redeem himself...by kissing ass to be 'politically correct' under this new regime just like he used to do during moi's regime during which he was the comptroller of state house. it would be nice if the overseeing minister was a different person not tainted.

›› msumeno 15-Jul-2010, reply_340727
@ Tonytone, two Nakumatts have previously been demolished, so even for that one, ni vile siku haijafika. Demolishing houses is for sure a loss, but grabbing public utilities land is even a greater, long term collective loss to the nation. I always get much pity for the common illiterate mwananchi who are often tricked into illegally allocated land in places like Mau, and feel they should be compensated, but for rich tycoons who build mansions in such places can be presumed to have proper knowledge of land regulations, besides having the resources to verify the legality/regularity of the title

›› Timex 15-Jul-2010, reply_340736
well said @funguo...and now talk about the new flats to house police at the central police station along university way...surely that land was not 'grabbed' by the police? yet the new flats built with tax money were demolished??? i don't support grabbing...but when the likes of grabbers like franklin bett (mau forest) and raila odinga (molasses plant) are at the forefront in overseeing demolitions such as this...that's icky!

›› Ivole 15-Jul-2010, reply_340758
@Klisters... Let me play a 'straightline' fellow here.

Say I bought a plot X in 1980 for 150K. Then the govt buys me off in 1990 to undertake a project in public interest for say 800K. Seeing it's good compensation I accept & get my 800K, walk away and by myself another plot elsewhere and move on with life. 8 yrs down the line the govt hasn't started on it's project. Ofcourse the donors have not released funds etc etc. Mr Mujuaji who is always on the know of the goings on at Land registry approaches Mr Maendeleo with a nice offer of selling him plot X (of course with forged / rigged or concorted docs). The deal falls through and somehow Mr Maendeleo get a Title (not sure if genuine or not). In turn Mr Maendeleo who had acquired it for speculation purposes decides to dispose it to Mr Makao who wants to build his dream home. Now come 2008, grants are obtained and the govt decides to implement a project it planned 13yrs ago only to find Mr Makao busy doing final touches to his palacial hse.

Now. What's wrong with the government making use of the plot it acquired from me 13yrs ago by clearing it to make way for it's intended project? What further negotiations are to be carried on with Mr Makao? Is he a squatter?

›› Tonytone 15-Jul-2010, reply_340766
This is my take. brief and straight 2 the point. if you acquired the title deed legally and followed all the right procedures, the govt should and must compensate you incase of repossesion or demolition. and those who issued and signed those documents should be prosecuted and locked up at kamiti for a long time. it's very easy to follow the paper trail and apprehend those culpable since lands ministry is now computerized.

›› Ivole 15-Jul-2010, reply_340778
@Tony... in my previous reply, I avoided going into the point you just raised.

Picture this.... You go into the audit trail of the LR in question and realise the 1st & 2nd owners after the govt acquired the land are non-existant. You pick the ID copies in the files, send flying squad to their village on for them to report back 'Not such person have ever been born in that village'. Bro, white collar thugs are always miles ahead of the systems. And for as long as those fellows are not available and for some reason their transaction is proven null & void, subsequent transfers hold no air wacha hata water.

›› H2O 15-Jul-2010, reply_340783
@ivole, you have described exactly has been happening. you will find that the land was grabbed, and the initial grabber sells it off to another party who inturn might sell it off or develop it. you might also find that there is no title existing but a letter of allotment, and where a title is existing, it most likely fake.
@tonytone, the govt can always do a compulsory aquisition, in this case you will be compensated at the market value of the property, but it illegally aquired, the cost is borne by the said owner, and by the way, you can be charged in court.
There are cases cases where people were compensated along time ago (in the 1970's) and the land reverted back to the goverment but no development took place and the original owners continued occupying the land only to be evicted when the government became serious about the road constructions, and these people still cry foul.

›› Ivole 15-Jul-2010, reply_340788
@Tony... in my previous reply, I avoided going into the point you just raised.

Picture this.... You go into the audit trail of the LR in question and realise the 1st & 2nd owners after the govt acquired the land are non-existant. You pick the ID copies in the files, send flying squad to their village on for them to report back 'Not such person have ever been born in that village'. Bro, white collar thugs are always miles ahead of the systems. And for as long as those fellows are not available and for some reason their transaction is proven null & void, subsequent transfers hold no air wacha hata water.

›› Ivole 15-Jul-2010, reply_340794
@H2O... true... very true

Why do you think Banks don't bother with Title Deeds nowadays?

I know of a case where after a client defaulted in payments and could not be reached, bank engaged a reposessor & surveyor to go and start the sale process of the land given as collateral. The feedback buffled the bank. the said piece of land was part of a highway...

If you want to know this fellows are always way ahead of systems, take another case in point quite recently........ A bank sends a repossessor kushika 2 Prime movers whose owner has defaulted. On arrival at the said place armed with logbooks etc, he was shown the logbook items which turned out to be 2 toyo motorcycles complete with their own copies of logbooks.

Hii ni Kenya!

›› H2O 15-Jul-2010, reply_340799
Previosly, land grabbers would quickly develop the land overnight, move in and rush to the law courts to orders stop any interferance with the property until the case is determined by the court, what this would mean is that the land remains grabbed with the developer enjoying the fruits of public land and with time the hullaballo about the issue would die and the status quo remains, but nowadays, the property is demolished first then talk comes later, if you notice, the demolisions are timed to take place before occupation of the building, because after the occupation, it is not that easy to evict the occupants.

›› Timex 15-Jul-2010, reply_340922
Many of the developers are hard working citizens like you and i who after laboring endlessly to get a good education finally landed a dream job. Next in our line of dreams is to build a lovely home for our wives and kids partly from our savings and through financial institutions...and then being foolish enough to believe what the law says that every citizen has a right to own property anywhere in the republic, we purchase this 'prime' property that has been publicly advertised...and to correct some skeptics here like @Ivole, the documents presented to us by the seller, (and after confirming from the Ministry of Lands through a dreary 'search'), are actually 'genuine' just like the national ID cards issued to Somali immigrants by our very own Immigration Ministry...the crux of my argument is that many of those suffering demolitions now are innocent, hard working kenyans who were duped (if you could call it that) into buying from the likes of Franklin Bett (then an influential personality in the Moi regime who was allocated what we now call 'public' land and who later sold it the person who sold it to us...)

›› Ivole 15-Jul-2010, reply_340967
@Timex... call them 'genuine' or 'fake', the real issue is where did the rain start beating. There was a fake transaction somewhere. Let all those involved from the point of the fake transaction solve their problems.

If your car is stolen and you bumped into me driving it, what will you do? If you are lucky and get a police involvement only for me to turn up with 'genuine' possession documents in my name showing you sold the car to Person X who inturn sold the car to the current me what next? In police investigations they realise Person X does not actually exist in reality, then what?

›› Timex 15-Jul-2010, reply_341184
@Ivole I think by suggesting that people fake their personalities (person x) in order to grab and dispose of land IN Kenya is a bit far fetched, don't you think? Real people do actually appear in district land boards during land transactions. Real estate agents and lawyers too do represent parties to land transactions, and real bank accounts are used. As such one may not say that the real culprits to such scams cannot be determined and apprehended by way of an audit/document trail. Since you are drawing an analogy to the change of ownership of motor vehicles, consider a case where a search with the registrar of motor vehicles yields positive results (since land searches are mandatory before change of ownership by way of deed can be effected), meaning that the person selling you the vehicle was a 'duly registered' hence, legal owner of the motor vehicle. A similarity with what many real estate investors in Kenya go through would be for the same government through the Registrar to 're-possess' your motor vehicle without some form of recourse to you, with the reason that you 'stole' the motor vehicle! Does that make sense?

›› tim472 15-Jul-2010, reply_341299
Timex, Ivole, Tonytone n H2O u r all right but from different perspective. The first mistake is the government it has no proper audit of land in Kenya. Most times u can't tell between genuine n fake titles coz it's always an inside job. Send the current politicians including the principals have benefitted from free public land allocation from the then president and where glad to take them. Now they are the same people demanding others to return them without compensation while at the same time they do want their own properties mentioned. Thats politics n Franklin is playing it even now but we arent gallible anymore. Still it has to be done but Gov need to be accountable as well.

›› H2O 15-Jul-2010, reply_341336
@times, when you are caught with stolen goods, that is a crime in its self and you will be locked up. the onus will be on you to produce the person who sold you the goods. Now in the case of land, you will similarlybe expectedto followup withthe person who sold you the land for you to recover your monies. meanwhile, you will be landless. BTW, most of the grabbed land will be having letters of allotment and not titles. if you were offered a piece of land which has only letter of allotment, be very careful.

›› Gacherry 16-Jul-2010, reply_341836
Watching the demolishion was painful. How's the owner holding up?

›› Ivole 16-Jul-2010, reply_341959
@H2O... That's well put!

›› afriQDef 16-Jul-2010, reply_341976
...and the suit against Franklin Bett as an individual...how's that gonna help

›› Timex 16-Jul-2010, reply_342093
@H20 it is not as simplistic as buying household goods or sukuma wiki in the market as you make it out to be. At the time the head of state had powers to allot land many such parcels of land are not being contested even as we speak...that is the reality of the matter. If a government confers ownership to an individual evidenced by the issuing of a 'genuine' title deed, and you, after carrying out 'due diligence' tests through a 'search' with the Ministry of Lands, confirm the existence of such title and ownership you proceed to purchase the land, at the minimum you deserve protection guaranteed in the constitution (individual rights and right to own property anywhere in the republic) instead of being summarily branded a 'grabber' and a 'thief'. even in your simplest of minds you cannot draw an analogy of this complex situation to being 'caught with stolen goods'...

my example that i gave earlier on was about national id cards that are being dished out to foreigners through hon. Kajwang's ministry. Would you arrest and deport a person of Somali origin as an alien, for instance, yet this person holds a VALID Kenyan identity card and passport issued by the government?

Let's go back to the issue of land and title deeds. Before the last referendum, His Excellency Mtukufu Rais Mwai Kibaki, Head of state and Commander in Chief of the Kenyan Armed Forces E.G.H.M.P. issued 12,000 title deeds in Mau...many of the recipients are now being asked to vacate. My question to you @H20 and @Ivole...would this 're-possession' be likened to the re-possession of 'stolen goods'?

I like your argument @tim472...that sums up the crux of this matter.

›› kutavitu 17-Jul-2010, reply_342955
Bett aint clean,ako na land Mau...sad th@ nothing we can demolish huko.

›› Klarkse 26-Jul-2010, reply_349679
The guy who owns the house isn't a mr.wainaina he is kald mike maina n he is a bisunessman deals in real estate the house waz meant for rental purposes and even if he was on land meant for public use our greedy government is also at fault because he used to pay land rates of 1million per year n da govt kept taking the money without complaint

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