Raila On Abortion!

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Raila On Abortion!
Listing #35715 by Mshusho kwa wingi on 10-May-2010 . Viewed 1425 times . Replied to 115 times . Printed 28 times . Favorited 1 times

Am sorry to say, but Raila's public utterences on abortion a few days ago was very insulting. Everyone has the right to live, lets not forget! But from the thick lips of a prime minister, comes out such words as, 'ni kitu cha miezi mitatu, hakina macho wala sikio.'

KWANI HUYU RAILA HAJUI KAMA HII KATIBA YATAKAKUPTISHWA NA WATU? He really out of the real path, lets take in case where the zygot would have been given a chance to see whats NEXT, do you think it would have supported the YES CAMP?

ANSWER TO YOU WHO WOULD QUESTION IF THE CHILD NEEDS MOTHER TO GROW.
The child needs GOD to GROW, not the mother! RAILA kanyo ti iwuondo ji to ok ayie kodi kata matin.
we lalo ji, IF WE WANT CHANGE THEN IT HAS TO A COMPLETE CHANGE, LETS REASON OUT TOGETHER AS KENYANS AND BRING IN A CHANGE that curves a smile to the lives of the living and a constitution that does not determine the fate of human in regards to life and death!

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›› cents 10-May-2010, reply_284923
YES will win no matter what u will try to paint Raila with
When and wher did he ssay it............

›› Omutita. 10-May-2010, reply_284928
Abortion is a moral issue. Whether or not it is in the constitution, it will go on. No one is endorsing it but the confusing statement here is "unless the life of the mother is in danger". Lets look at it this way, if the baby is endangering the mothers life, it does not matter coz it means that eitherway both are destined to die. I dont think there can be a situation where the mother can be killed to save the babys life so I think that we are focusing on issues which we all dont have control over. Lets be pragmatic and look at the main issues. As for the PM, his utterances were uncalled for and immature. I guess Politicians are a rare breed.

›› wayne 10-May-2010, reply_284929
regardless of whether one is YES or NO, such utterances especially coming from a leader are in bad taste. period.

›› Mshusho kwa wingi 10-May-2010, reply_284931
not when and where, lakini hata wewe, cant u see that this constitution in a way wants to fate-factor in human life? You was allowed a chance to see whats next and today ur seeing the draft constitution, cant u feel for this unborn who the constitution wants dead!
Human life is GOD's life, GOD is hungry when you commit suicide, its a sin! Today everyone is camping YES, that is YES against the GODLY way! yawa.

›› Sylar 10-May-2010, reply_284937
Potetoe Potatoe! i eint voting and i dont care what is therein!!!!

›› Mshusho kwa wingi 10-May-2010, reply_284941
@Omutita, thanks for seeing that, but abortion is immoral. IF YOU SAYING THAT ABORTION IS MORAL, WHY DO THEY SAY THAT MUSTURBATION IS IMMORAL? DOES IT INVOLVE HUMAN LIFE? MUSTURBATION INVOLVES HUMAN FACTOR AND THAT IS UNLAWFUL, HOW ABOUT ABORTION THEN?

›› Mshusho kwa wingi 10-May-2010, reply_284942
THAT IS MURDER, AT FISRT DIGIRIIIIII...........Hhahahahaha

›› Omutita. 10-May-2010, reply_284943
@ wololo! I never said that it is Moral, i said it is a moral issue. What I was saying is that it is out of anyones control. The current constitution allows for the death penalty. Dont you think that by saying no you are endorsing it too? What is your take on the death penalty? Not having the clause on abortion in the constitution will not make it any different for one to have an abortion than it is now. Do you honestly think that if this draft is passed we shall have an abortion department in every hospital?

›› Mshusho kwa wingi 10-May-2010, reply_284949
@Omutita, you do have a point, but get this for the record, am not for the current and for the draft. I just dont like the idea where human life is placed on ballot box! That is wrong, very wrong indeed. Your question on abortion department in every hospital is a law we kenyans want to bring in but will co-exist with the maternity department.

›› digger 10-May-2010, reply_284957
Why are we wasting time debating common sense.I mean why risk the life of my wife trying to save a one month old fetus.To me my wife comes first and i will do everything to save her.My vote is YES.

›› Mshusho kwa wingi 10-May-2010, reply_284960
@digger, and if common sense means murder then you're wife whom you claim to cross the ocean for is next on line! NEXT!

›› rapman 10-May-2010, reply_284976
if u consult ur biology u will realise that the p.m was right in some sense,but i also agree that the way he put it was rather insensitive,am voting YES though

›› davinski' 10-May-2010, reply_284994
the yes campaigners are stressing that this draft is for .."vizazi vijavyo" (words of raila) yet he dared made statements such as those that guy is mad

›› Mshusho kwa wingi 10-May-2010, reply_285015
i've consulted with my english teacher and he says he dont undrstand where ur point is coz in ur final end ur YES seem so weak, ur arguing in favor of the NO camp!

›› Mshusho kwa wingi 10-May-2010, reply_285017
@davinski, there is no future in this DRAFT katiba, mambo bad!

›› davinski' 10-May-2010, reply_285023
absolutely i will vote no this is not an issue about yes/ no winning or losing its about me being pro life and no matter how much the constitution twists it it all sums up as legalizing abortion
if doctors and mothers wish to be participants in the act I'll not be among the Kenyans who gave them the go ahead

›› Mshusho kwa wingi 10-May-2010, reply_285030
@davinski, and someone is talking of biology like if that biology came before GOD? I bet u can see how wicked we beings are. Kudos for seeing that, people must understand that ur NO is neither for RUTO or the Religious leaders, and your YES people must understand that its YES which is for RAILA and his beleivers!

›› Omutita. 10-May-2010, reply_285033
You guys, the point is no one is asking for your permission.

›› Sahau 10-May-2010, reply_285038
Now that we are so good in looking for issues, why hasn't anybody commented about this No guy at Uhuru park dancing with a bottle of alcohol? Or alcohol is NOT bad for Christians? (See The Star front page 10/05/2010)

›› Omutita. 10-May-2010, reply_285040
The church is wrong to go political on this.

›› Mshusho kwa wingi 10-May-2010, reply_285049
@omutita, the reason we're going for referendum. That is permission. I support, the church is wrong.
@sahau, haha

›› davinski' 10-May-2010, reply_285054
omutita the church is not going political if anyone had bishop oginde on ktn last Thursday he said that this draft has placed us in a lose-lose situation . why ? because if this draft passes Kenyans as a whole we lose our ground on morality and if this draft does not pass Kenya loses it's fair chance of having a new beginning

i don't know much about kadhis court and i don't care if its there or not but when the church says it does not want kadhis in the constitution it doesn't mean that they are against the Muslims they are simply saying they want equal representation of all religions in my view if it brings s much discontentment why not make kadhis court an act of parliament where it can be closely monitored

›› Timex 10-May-2010, reply_285058
now i am convinced more than ever...i used to hesitate a bit on this issue of right of a woman to give birth whenever she so chooses after having conceived but on hearing how the 'yes-men' are referring to our future generation...the ones we toil each day and protect our environment for...and the ones we claim that we are passing a new constitution for, mine is an unequivocal and resounding 'NO'!!

›› Omutita. 10-May-2010, reply_285073
@ Timex, when did you start listening to politicians? I heard one the other day tell people that rain comes from the sky and not from the Forest. If that is the basis of your decision, you need to rethink.

›› Mshusho kwa wingi 10-May-2010, reply_285074
@davinsky & timex, all times i would recommend the rest Kenyans to see and reason like you GREAT MEN OF TODAY! lol

›› Timex 10-May-2010, reply_285079
@omutita you don't listen to politicians neither do you listen to the church...? well, i too can make my own decisions only that they are now bolstered by the ludicrous utterances of people some of you call leaders and indeed look up to for showing you the way...but seriously, if i was to listen to any one, i'd rather the church. how about you?

›› Mshusho kwa wingi 10-May-2010, reply_285081
@Omutita, stop acting up like u never casted ur vote back in 2007! From where ur coming, there is councillor, MP, and in the TOP seat, u either have RAILA, KIBAKI, KALONZO, RUTO, UHURU, MUDAVADI etc! THoz bustards!

›› Timex 10-May-2010, reply_285091
thanks @wololo yahye...these must be the end of times if we refer to living beings as 'things' simply because they happened to have been conceived at a different time than ours. who then shall speak for them? what right do we have to decide whether they live or die? are we playing God? what if this constitution had been passed before we were born...how many of us would have made it to this day to be shouting about what 'ought to be or ought not to be' regarding the future generation? and why do the 'yes-men-' fool us by claiming that this draft consitution 'ni ya vizazi vijao'? selfish creeps is what we have become...

›› Shiku K 10-May-2010, reply_285092
Whether or not the draft is passed.abortion will still happen.

›› Omutita. 10-May-2010, reply_285097
@ Timex! The church has some stringent rules which in todays reality may not be practical. Lets take an example, if you have kids or may have kids in the future, how would you approach the issue of sex with them. From what I have seen, you will probably tell them to wait which is what any reasonable parent would do. On the flip side, we all know that these kids will probably go ahead and do it (statistically probable). Would you in the same tone ask them to use a condom if they were to decide to do it or would you ignore that part? Sema ukweli? My point is one should look at things practically. Open your mind and you may see a point in what someone else is trying to say. Dont be so hardlined. Idearly, i also wish the world would be what the church is trying to describe but it is not.

›› Timex 10-May-2010, reply_285099
@omutita are we still talking about the constitution?

›› davinski' 10-May-2010, reply_285103
i liked mutahi ngunyi sentiments a while ago on raila odinga who believes now the church leaders are the bad guys for opposing the draft which he proposes and the mungiki are the good guys for proposing the draft he proposes

i dont know why suddenly everybody supporting the draft is saying "i'm a christian but...." and gives some number of reasons why he'll vote yes if you chose to be a christian there is no buts, nos or ifs. and this phrase is common with the yes campaigners

›› Omutita. 10-May-2010, reply_285104
@ Timex, you are the one who said that you listen to the church. In this instance, the church is against the use of condoms. Would you follow this notion in that circumstance?

›› Sahau 10-May-2010, reply_285108
@Times, after seeing a guy live on TV (photo in todays papers) dancing No with a bottle of alcohol at the Uhuru park prayer meeting, I can tell you that I have discovered that the church does NOT have MORAL authority to tell me anything. The new draft is a lesser evil. I vote YES.

@Shiku, infact, even if the draft said in capital letter red font 'Abortion is strictly illegal and suspects will be hanged' - it will still continue. The church's responsibility is to cure the cause (of unwanted pregnancies), not the symptom (abortion).

›› Mshusho kwa wingi 10-May-2010, reply_285109
@Shikuku K & Omutita, just like saying murder is illegal, but the question remains does it not happen? @Timex, good question.

›› davinski' 10-May-2010, reply_285111
shiku abortion will still happen but we can't allow God to punish us collectively for an act of a few immoral people let God punish the people practicing abortion . like Pilate who washed his hands and gave the Jews to crucify Jesus and set a robber free. its the same way I'll be voting no, the blood of the unborn will not be in my hands

›› Sahau 10-May-2010, reply_285115
@Omutita, interestingly its only christian believers who are uncomfortable with that clause which touches on abortion. Why are Muslims not bothered? The answer is simple - Muslims don't condone immorality so they have no reasons to abort unless its a medical emergency.

›› Timex 10-May-2010, reply_285122
@omutita you are wrong...THE CATHOLIC church is against the use of condoms...and this is a mute point as far as the draft debate is concerned. and fyi i am not catholic. or is there a mention of condoms any where in the draft? let us not digress. the church is against ABORTION and any legislation that can create a loophole for wanton abuse. and that is the subject of our discussion today...and i support them on that. but it seems to me your 'beef' with the church is not just about the constitution is it?

›› Mshusho kwa wingi 10-May-2010, reply_285136
@Omutita, the law and the constitution has its cradle from the BIBLE, the use of condoms was never there in times of Adam, Abraham until science came in. Science then changed the normal way of our beliefs and our faith in GOD was somehow shaken. Now if ur talking of church not supporting the use of condom then thats science and not religion, but if the church comes out loud to pinpoint whats wrong in the coming system, it dont mean that they've sidekicked their roles in the religions/sects. They came in becoz the system (constitution) talked of LIFE which is beyond the control of human power. Lets not reveal our true pictures on issues relating to life and death yet we all need to live, let our fate be determined by our creator and not HUMAN. I love my wife, u do the same and we all love our kids and our kids in plan.

›› Timex 10-May-2010, reply_285139
@sahau you ain't seen nothing yet...wait until you see the 'yes-men' campaigning..you will go the kalonzo way of sneaking thro' the middle! muslims don't mind about the abortion clause, right? and they never abort, yes? well BLOW ME DOWN!...that's a shocker right there! how many here concur with you?

›› Timex 10-May-2010, reply_285140
@wololo yahye...those are words inspired by THE ONE who is greater than all of us. AMEN!

›› Omutita. 10-May-2010, reply_285142
@ Timex, there is no issue of beef here! We are having an exchange of ideas. The condom issue was just an example and yes the catholic church is still a church. My question to you is do you make decisions based on your own concience or based on what your pastor says. Please try and get another reason to say no to the constitution other than that your pastor said so. Imajin if you were born in Nepal. You would have been saying Budda this budda that. I also believe very much in the teachings of the bible but there are many church bible interpretations i dont agree with. The church also interpretes the bible differently thus the many denominations so move away from there and argue from the standpoint of what you believe in and not what Raila or your Pastor told you.

›› Sahau 10-May-2010, reply_285145
@Timex, Its a fact we have grown with! Most Muslims marry when then are VIRGINS! Kwani you don't know that?

The Church pastors (I mean pastors and not the faithfuls) have started a war they will never win. Just wait till the official campaigns start. The church will have to explain how they have accepted money from a Homosexual group! Just wait @Timex, some of the pastors may never preach again!

›› Mshusho kwa wingi 10-May-2010, reply_285147
@sahau, our muslim brothers are silent in that so long as they got Kadhis court. The reason for their silent could also be on the number of coming suicide bombers who would be queued up for life that they wanted to perform but they never, abortion in a major way would have saved their kids for eternal life.

›› digger 10-May-2010, reply_285152
It would be interesting to see what unfolds tomorrow should Raira wake up in the morning to say NO to the draft.

›› davinski' 10-May-2010, reply_285154
i don't have any reason to believe that there is a case sufficient enough for to warrant an abortion .statistics show that over 500 abortions take place in Kenya daily what statistics do we have of women who aborted cos of an emergency?

and what is that emergency that a 'profession' (as quoted in the draft)cannot deal with?

and what guarantee do you have that by aborting the baby the mother will survive ?

›› davinski' 10-May-2010, reply_285161
haha @ digger thanks for being multi dimensioned

›› Sahau 10-May-2010, reply_285162
@digger, even if Raira wakes up and says NO, he will just join the losing camp. We are tired and need a new political dispensation. By the way, the new constitution could guarantee a bloodless 2012.

›› Timex 10-May-2010, reply_285165
@omutita does it matter to you how the church interprets the meaning of life or do you know it by your own wisdom that life is sacred and that no one has a right to decide on whether others like themselves are worthy of it or not? if you wouldn't want something to happen to you (like being deprived of life) then you should not do it to others. i do not need the church to tell me that...but i do support the church in it's quest and determination to break it down to people like you that it is not only you who has a right to live...but that right extends to others as well...and you have no business whatsoever making that decision for them!

›› digger 10-May-2010, reply_285171
These church people are mad.I mean you forbide people from using condoms and yet you know that the youth are going to have sex anyway.Then when they do have sex and get pregnant you stand in our way to get the constitution we've been waiting for this long.
Just tell the youth to use condoms then we won't be having this boring debate.

›› Mshusho kwa wingi 10-May-2010, reply_285172
@omutita, when i go to CHURCH i go there not because of the pastor but becoz of the WORD. But when i attend a political rally, i go because of my political party and leader and talks he/she has.

›› Omutita. 10-May-2010, reply_285182
@ davinski! You are not going to change any of those statistics by saying no. Mind you, the constitution does not define a culture. Its just a document. So if it becomes the norm, all the church shall be left to do is to simply convince the masses. Saying NO will not have any impact. We are faced with a situatuin where we have to chose between two evils. No is also a choice coz the old draft is a choice. Think about which evil you need to chose. If you feel that you dont want to chose, abstaining is also another choice.

›› digger 10-May-2010, reply_285185
The one thing i like about this constitution is that it will reduce politicians to nothing.How refrreshing it will be to watch news about a technocrat minister addressing real issues not the "watu wetu wanamalizwa" stuff.

›› Timex 10-May-2010, reply_285189
@davinski...right on point!! with the current advanced medicine patients are cut open under lumbar puncture as they consciously watch...what would be so difficult in carrying out cs operations (which is so common nowadays) and safely deliver both mother and baby? i smell a rat here...some people want to avoid responsibilities of looking after their own children.

@digger...count in islam...they also forbid condom use...in fact more vehemently than a SECTION of the church does. they too are mad!

›› afriQDef 10-May-2010, reply_285191
@daviski' @timex... wakeup dudes --like the learned persons i suspect u may be .. e'g. if an embryo implants in the fallopian tube...instead of in the uterus...lazima itolewe! a baby cannot grow on some damn tube...atleast try rem some of ur biology lessons

›› Omutita. 10-May-2010, reply_285195
@ Timex, my position is still yes due to the fact that even if I vote no, I will not impact the issue of Abortion. The issues I am looking to the draft to control are things like the number of ministers are set and cannot go to 43 like they are now, ministers will be professionally appointed on merit and not by political affiliation, more independence for the Judiciary, no leeway for roadside declarations by leaders. These things I now have the chance to have my say on and i will vote a biig YES!

›› Sahau 10-May-2010, reply_285196
Islam is very clear on abortion and it is totally against the practice and it is considered among the major sins. However, just like many aspects of Islam, it Islam, in terms of necessity, termination of pregnancy can be allowed. In the event that the life of the mother and child is in danger as a result of pregnancy, according to Islam, preference MUST be given to saving the life of the mother. A credible medical doctor is required to be consulted before the termination can be carried out.
Secondly, in cases where by a pregnancy results from rape, according to many scholars, the woman can be permitted to terminate the pregnancy if she feels she can be able to handle the future psychological implications.

Abu Ayman

I think i should convert to the religion of reason - Islam!

›› davinski' 10-May-2010, reply_285197
@afriq are you trying to tell me that a professional who has stayed 7 years in university dissecting real human bodies will be completely clueless on how to deliver an embryo safely from the tube to the whatever

›› Omutita. 10-May-2010, reply_285199
@ Timex & Devinski, those medical advances will not convince that 15 year old kid from her decision. You are right but im sorry to say that it will still go on. All I can advise you is to ensure that you inform and educate your loved ones on these issues and pray for devine intervention.

›› Timex 10-May-2010, reply_285201
@afriqdef...very true. but do you honestly believe that is the spirit behind the 'yes-men' rhetoric? do you suppose they even know what ectopic pregnancy means? (heck, they think that a few month's old fetus doesn't have legs and eyes and is therefore not a human being!)...and just what do you suppose the statistics for ectopic pregnancies are like? just as @davinski has pointed out above...do you think most of the abortions being done now and even more with the new draft will be due to such 'emergencies'?

›› Sahau 10-May-2010, reply_285202
And by the way @Omutita, why cant guys realize the constitution was NOT about abortion and Kadhi's courts?

›› Omutita. 10-May-2010, reply_285203
@ Sahau, I think they'd much rather condone the other countless injustices that the draft is proposing to rectify.

›› Shiku K 10-May-2010, reply_285214
I am assuming y'all are men,..so you would not understand fully the implications of an unwanted pregnancy.
@wololo,quit being self righteous,abortion is a form of self preservation,not murder,there is a reason why one can only safely abort during the first trimester.
@davinski,he is a strange one this lord,and i dont think all women who abort are party to the pregnancies in the 1st place.pray do tell,will he punish a 17 year old girl for aborting a pregnancy resulting from rape???

›› futstep 10-May-2010, reply_285222
YES 2 abortion. sometyms the 'sugarcane is too sweet 2 ....' hope m'mesoma constitution yote m'wachane na kadhi na abortion

›› Shiku K 10-May-2010, reply_285225
And secondly,isn't there room for amending this constitution after its passed??

›› afriQDef 10-May-2010, reply_285226
@dav...wewe umesikia hiyo technology imefika hapa Kenya? ok mayb hata imefika but thts debate for ana day...that guy at Afya Centre came up with the TT babies and it was after how many years??? we talking real life experiences and not some experiments on human bodies....infact women,docs and health officers are the only ones supposed to be allowed to debate these issues
@Timex....abortion has been there like forever and no one will take it away -that's some HARD FACT! it being in/out of the const. is irrelevant even...but should u say NO just because the YES men are on the other side? and u think they may have sm hidden agendas? please just think abt simple sweet issues like 'dual citizenship', na kadhalika..that are to be gained

›› Zinc 10-May-2010, reply_285234
There are very many unwanted children around us.
And I'm sure very few pro-lifers will ever assist any one of them:

"Uncle/ Aunty saidia..."

"Kwenda huko...."

If you don't help them when they are alive, why should you care if they die?

›› Timex 10-May-2010, reply_285240
@zinc you are right...to hell with them...all of them...born or unborn we don't want them...so let's vote yes!

›› davinski' 10-May-2010, reply_285262
shiku a rape is a wrong but is terminating the life already formed a right? no its wrong and those two wrongs don't make up a right

›› davinski' 10-May-2010, reply_285267
@afriq I'll continue debating on it because primarily it's an issue about morality before it is religion and i find it satirical to tell me to keep off the issue while raila an engineer knows that at two month the foetus doesn't even have ears and hands

›› Timex 10-May-2010, reply_285268
if all 'unwanted' pregnancies were to be terminated, half of us would not be here today. and that's an understatement!

›› ottovon 11-May-2010, reply_285362
@Timex am perplexed at how little you understand this issue of abortion.. what is so difficult to understand that the draft states clearly that abortion will be allowed if it is determined to endanger the mother life, its a simple as it sounds. I know some have to be on the NO camp to call it referendum but can�t you find anything else to argue about? Why do i feel you are blindly following your pastor? i stand to be corrected.
FYI, You voting NO, will not stop the abortion going on for the reckless reasons, it all comes to a law that will actually determine what entails unsafe pregnancy and pregnancy that was conceived because the Catholics preach against the use of a condom.
I love my church but i refuse to live in doctrines unlike reality. Sometimes thinking twice before exposing your $#@*&^!%... is very important

›› Omutita. 11-May-2010, reply_285431
@ ottovon! Even the guys who sold all their possessions and burnt themselves in a church in Uganda were following their "Pastors" who convinced them to do all this based on his interpretation of the Bible. We should all sometimes try to think critically about what we are told by others and let our conscience talk to us. @ Timex, the US has one of the highest rates of abortion yet they have all the latest technology in the world. Reason for this is that it is a cultural and moral issue so i don't know where the issue of technology comes here.

›› Mshusho kwa wingi 11-May-2010, reply_285462
guys, yesterday i was conversing with a fellow on the same issue and in his defence he asked me 2 weigh between the life of the unborn and the mother, i was perplexed in the fact that the dude was placing me in the red corner to give LIFE/DEATH to human. Thats God's role, its not my duty as a human to do so, but my duty as human is to choose between wht is good and what is evil. Life is what we all seek no matter how tight its going 2b its a gift, seeing another day is always a gift, we thank GOD for that. But where Kenya is headed as a country by virtue of CHANGE, is hell bcoz human fate is now is becoming a determined factor.

›› afriQDef 11-May-2010, reply_285480
--@davinki...u cannnot seriously take Raila's or any other politician's foolish utterances in regard...not in this day and age...what i actually find satirical is that u choosing to feign ignorance when u know the real truth on this DAMN ABORTION issue...debate on it but please base it on facts and reality -NOT Raila's campaign mistakes
@wololo...kwani wewe ni trained health practitioner...ama was there a real life scenario of 'a mother in danger' in your hands at the time the 'fellow' was putting u on the spot? get serious pple

›› Omutita. 11-May-2010, reply_285492
@ wololo! Let me put it this way! I dont know your gender so i will just pretend that you are a Man. If a doctor comes to you and tells you that both your wife and your unborn child are going to die if the unborn child is not removed from her womb, would you be willing to sacrifice them both or would you agree for the doctors to teminate the pregnancy in order to save the "life of the mother"? Mind you this happens. If one person sacrifices his life to save the life of one thousand other people, is that suicide? Please consult your pastor and revert.

›› Omutita. 11-May-2010, reply_285493
@ Wololo, even the bible says that Jesus gave his own life. It does not say that Jesus was murdered or killed. Tafakari hayo.

›› Mshusho kwa wingi 11-May-2010, reply_285523
@Omutita, its like ur telling me, when a muslim brother blasts himself like in the twin towers and he claims that to be Jihad, do u think he'll even see the gates of HEAVEN?
s--- HAPPENS!
Let nature take its course, u nigglets want to play even the LORD part. U've gone too far.

›› Omutita. 11-May-2010, reply_285526
@ Wololo, why are you dodging my question. Would you watch them both die or would you make a decision?

›› Mshusho kwa wingi 11-May-2010, reply_285537
ITS LIKE YOU'RE GIVING ME A BOMB TO BLAST MYSELF. Question well answered. Think. @omutita.

›› Omutita. 11-May-2010, reply_285547
I dont get it! Would you tell the doctor to let Nature take its cause and let your wife die when she could have been saved. Give me a streight answer. Sijui mambo ya bomb imetoka wapi.

›› Mshusho kwa wingi 11-May-2010, reply_285558
who said my wife is going to die, there are two lives dont forget. I DONT GIVE LIFE, I DONT GIVE DEATH! Only the certificates so lets let GOD DECIDE!

›› Elder 11-May-2010, reply_285578
I sure wish some of the proponents of abortion would visit some ofthe abortion clinics (mills) and see for themselves what goes on there. This may allow them to realise that even a three month old foetus already has identifiable human features.

›› Omutita. 11-May-2010, reply_285582
@ Elder! Who is propagating for abortion. Please answer the same question I have asked wololo! Things are not always black and white in the real world.

›› Wakaguku 11-May-2010, reply_285634
Are we debating whether or not we should be allowed to kill constitutionally? I thot 'thou should not kill' is God's (life giver) verdict. Did he state the age at which its 'ok' to kill? To Him even before I ws formed in my mothers womb He knew me. Life doesnt even begin at conception folks! Period.

›› Mshusho kwa wingi 11-May-2010, reply_285638
@OMUTITA, could that be the reason why you people is tryin to turn bright to dark?

›› Omutita. 11-May-2010, reply_285640
@ Wakaguku! Nice sermon. I fully concur. In real life, if your wife was to die coz of her pregnancy and the end result would be that both your wife and kid were to die, and terminating the preganacy would save your wifes life, would you agree or not. I am yet to get a honest yes or no answer? JUST SAY YES OR NO! Simple! ANYONE OUT THERE?

›› Omutita. 11-May-2010, reply_285644
@ WOLOLO, A simple YES or NO will do. Jibu ni kama unafanya mtihani.

›› Elder 11-May-2010, reply_285651
@ Omutita, please read the proposed draft carefully. As I have stated in the other thread with same heading, this is my take:
Going through the proposed Constitution, it is absolutely obvious it lays the foundation for legalising abortion, clauses 26(4), 43(1)a and 2(5) &(6). We already know that there is a Reproductive Health Bill (2008), prepared by FIDA that will soon be introduced in parliament which actually throws wide open the grounds for allowing abortions. Under this law, all health practitioners will be bound to either assist women directly or through active referral for abortion services. Failure to comply will be deemed a crime and punishable by jail (3 yrs or Ksh. 200,000 fine). The Clause 2 articles also allow other international laws to be applicable in Kenya hence they also open avenues for abortion on demand (not necessarily when the life/health of mother is in danger). Much us we agree that abortion is a moral issue, it is the underlying principle of tying the constitution with abortion clauses that makes one refuse to be used to sunction what in ones opinion is not morally right. For this I will vote NO.

›› Timex 11-May-2010, reply_285681
@ottovon this is in response to your reply_285362 above. i can demonstrate that, in fact, you are the one exposing your own stupidity in a public forum. by selectively quoting only a small part of the section dealing with abortion could mean one of three things 1) you have absolutely no understanding of what you are talking about even after having read and re-read the draft; 2) you have never actually read the draft about which you so arrogantly and boastfully proclaim with a false sense of authority but are only ranting about things you�ve overheard from politicians through the media; or, 3) you are just plain stupid and argumentative for the mere sake of it. let us see whether other readers on this forum are as simplistic in thought an understanding as you are or are able to read in between the lines and understand that the said section opens up room for legitimising abortion for reasons OTHER than medical emergencies �endangering� the life of the mother. to bring you up to par with those who objectively conceptualise the issue at hand, I am quoting the relevant section from the draft below. I will be darned if you had ever seen anything like it before!

In Chapter 4 under the Bill of Rights the part on Rights and Fundamental freedoms, section 26 reads:

Right to life
26. (1) Every person has the right to life.
(2) The life of a person begins at conception.
(3) A person shall not be deprived of life intentionally, except to the extent
authorised by this Constitution or other written law.
(4) Abortion is not permitted unless, in the opinion of a trained health
professional, there is need for emergency treatment, or the life or health
of the mother is in danger, or if permitted by any other written law.

even a blind person can see that subsections (1) and (2) are negated by subsections (3) and (4)...

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